Episode 6: Lora Webb, Chief Executive Officer, MetricAid.
A seasoned veteran in the healthcare and the SaaS industry, Lora Webb leads MetricAid, a Health Information Technology (HIT) company focused on creating physician schedules that improve patient experience, the work-life balance for physicians, and department performance. In this interview, Lora talks about her experiences leading a business for several years and the lessons learned while growing a company from the ground up.
Transcript
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Joe: In terms of strategic planning, is there like a way that you like to approach it? Like what’s your methodology with strategic planning?
Lora: I like to have a really clear idea of what the goal is. So what is it? How do you… What do you, what do you see five years from now? What would you like this to look like? Do you want to have… You know, do you want world domination? I know that I, my goal is world domination. But I have to make sure that, that’s aligned with the board.
Joe: Hmm.
Lora: Um, you know, if, if that’s your goal, how, how do we achieve that? What’s, what could we do like in the next six months? Okay. Let’s make sure that we grow this market. Can we start looking at these market? Are there conferences in this market? Where does it make most sense? How are we going to scale that with our current staff? What are we gonna need for HR in order to grow that? What does marketing for that look like? So I think it’s just under having a really clear idea of what that end goal is. If you don’t have that, then you can’t plan anything else to get there.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: And I think that’s where you can really easily get off track.
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Joe: So, I mean, you’ve been… Just tell me about MetricAid, what you, what you guys do.
Lora: So, MetricAid schedules physicians. In particular, we schedule emergency department physicians. Our original core product was built, you know, with the goal in mind of improving patient wait times, and reducing things like administrative burden and physician burnout. So, you, 10 years ago when the founding partners sort of invented this methodology… I mean, invented is one of those words where they just put a few things together that they knew. They were able to match physician and group performance with patient flow so that the… You know, patients didn’t have to wait as long. So, we did that for a long time and our original customers, we got very lucky. Some of our original customers were big Toronto customers with well-known names. So, that business grew, and still we’re the only people that do that.
But secondary to that, we realized that if you want the physicians to work the shifts that you put them in to improve patient flow, you have to give them shifts they want to work. ‘Cause the minute you give them a shift they don’t and they trade out of it, your algorithms, and your databases, and your knowledge, all that’s out the window.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: So, then we decided to build a product in conjunction with the original one that was primarily based on physician preferences. So, that is actually our core business now. Our core business is our mid-tier level service where we build schedules for emergency departments and other departments that give the physicians a really high degree of personal choice. So, they have a lot of autonomy to tell us when and how they want to work.
Lora: Um, it’s a bit paradigm shifting, because it’s far from the classic rotation that’s often used because scheduling is complicated. And sometimes you have to put rules in place like a rotation to just get everybody in when they need to be in. But we find when we give physicians the option of telling us how and when they want to work, then they actually work more. You know, they feel empowered. They can schedule themselves around their other professional obligations and their family obligations. And that has the effect of improving the overall atmosphere of the department.
So, they now work when they want to work. They have fewer swaps and trades. You know, they’re not as frustrated with their schedule because they didn’t get what they needed, and now they have to spend hours trying to fix it. We do that all for them. And so those are primarily our two main services. And then we also have a SAAS-based model where you can do it yourself using, our technology as well. Um, what I will say is, what we do that’s a very different from our competition is that we don’t offer an automated service.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: So, automated scheduling is push button solution whereby you enter a whole bunch of rules that limits what the computer can do and what the software can do. And our experience speaking to customers who have transitioned from that to us is that it sounds really great. Theoretically, it should really work. But really busy- um, emergency department schedules that run 24/7 are quite complex. And what we find is that when they push that button, the result is that they have to spend hours and hours and hours fixing what the computer thought would be okay. And that’s actually way more complicated than just having us do it. And usually way more expensive than just having us do it.
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Joe: And can you talk about your role with the company?
Lora: So, I am the chief administrative officer. Um, really what I generally say is, “I don’t build schedules, and I don’t build software. But I’m involved in everything else.” So, I do marketing. I do sales. Right now I’m leading both those efforts. I do strategic planning. I do finances. I do HR. Um, I do.
Joe: Every business needs a Lora Webb, for sure.
Lora: Yeah. Right. Right.
Joe: And when, when you started with the company, like what, what stage was the business at?
Lora: It was a really early startup. So, just a handful of clients, a very small team. You know, really small recurring revenue. Um, I would say, I think we had three or four clients. We now have over, you know, 100 contracts. Some of our contracts have multiple clients. So, if I look at the number of schedules we build or are managing in some capacity, we’re well over 150 to 200 schedules. And we have over 100 clients or contracts which is probably about 130 or 40 different hospitals or sites. So, you know, when we started, when I came in, in 2014, I think we had three, and only in Ontario. Now we’re across Canada, in the United States, and in Australia.
Joe: So cool.
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Joe: And like, just on that, you guys getting to Australia. I mean, you’re in the UK. Or to… UK, is UK still on that?
Lora: No. We’re not actively serving anybody in the UK right now. We had a couple of contracts. They have a very different healthcare system. And they have a lot of problems. And they’re also really far behind the North American market in terms of using software to solve their scheduling issues. So, we did work with a couple of sites before COVID. But then everything sort of broke down with COVID.
Joe: Okay.
Lora: So, we continue to have conversations with lots of people in the UK. Um, but just, you know, our team is still limited and growing. So, with our resources, we focus on Canada. Focus on the US and then Australia where we’re starting to see some momentum there in the Perth area, which is really exciting.
Joe: And what’s been the keys to like say Australia, like how did that come about?
Lora: We have a little newsletter that we haphazardly put it together quarterly.
Joe: I’ve written for this newsletter.
Lora: And, yeah. Which is going to improve. There’s a very good plan-
Joe: We’re biggest fans.
Lora: Well, we’ve got… Listen. We have an intern who is the smartest kid I’ve ever met. And he just came to me today with a presentation on how we can improve our newsletter. And I’m like, “Have at her. Go for it. Do your, do your best.” So we’re gonna improve that over the next year. But, um, we happened to put in a newsletter, “Hey, we’re now in Australia.” And one of our… So that came, I think, I… Originally it must have came from an advertisement that we do in a podcast.
Joe: Oh, really?
Lora: Right. And then we have a physician in Vancouver who spends half his time in Aus-… He’s Australian. And every three months he goes back and forth. So he’s, he uses our service in Vancouver. But he goes back and forth to Perth and said, “Hey, I know those people. I know that hospital. I’d love to introduce you to more people.” We’re like, “Of course. Absolutely. Please do.” So we’ve been working with him just to connect the… You know, healthcare is different everywhere. But then also very similar everywhere.
Joe: Right.
Lora: But there are little nuances. Right? Like they don’t use the word physician. They use the word doctor. So there’s little things that we need to do there. When you have someone with the right accent, boots on the ground, who can open doors for you, that’s really made a difference.
Joe: And, and so would you say that’s kinda like at the heart of your growth strategy, those connections?
Lora: Our growth from till now really has been referral. There’s no doubt about it. We’re incredibly sticky. I think we have about a 90 per- 97% traction. Like, we keep about 97% of our clients year over year. And in the eight, almost eight years I’ve been here, I can name every single client we’ve lost. And I know why. And very few of them, very few of them are because, you know, it just went wrong. They’re usually just weren’t a good fit in terms of what we had at the time to offer them.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: But generally speaking, we keep most of our clients. Knock on wood. So I think because of that, the referral has always been really, really important to us and how most of our, our business has grown.
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Joe: And how about the US market? Like what, what have you found there? What are the challenges with that market?
Lora: The challenge with the US market is that there are some very big incumbent competition. So there’s some really big companies that do a great push-button solution. So we can’t compete at that level. What we do offer there that is new to them is our advanced level.
Lora: So that’s not really something that anybody’s really considered. They’ve never considered outsourcing that service ’cause I think most… A lot of emergency departments believe that they’re unique, you know, unicorns. And that there’s no way anybody can understand what it’s like to be in that specific department with those specific people. It’s not actually the case. Our schedulers now at this stage… I mean, we have schedulers who’ve been doing this for four or five years who have booked millions of shifts and who know more about that type of scheduling than anybody probably anywhere.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: Just because they’re experienced across so many markets and so many different types of EDs. So there’s very little that comes at them that they don’t already know. So having… Being able to message that is really difficult. It’s really difficult to say, “Actually, we totally get what you need. We can do it for you. We can reduce your administrative burden and actually probably your cost. We will probably be cheaper than your admins, or your physician schedulers, or whoever’s building it now.” So that’s a difficult message. But, you know, we’ve got, um, three really big clients there now all with really impressive names where we can say like, “Okay, we, we work with these guys, these guys, and these guys.”
Joe: Right.
Lora: “Go talk to them.” And, and they’re not sort of like their, respected, nationally respected hospitals.
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Joe: And that push button, competitor, for example. Like are they actually delivering on the automation?
Lora: They do deliver. No. They deliver something that people have gotten used to using. So they deliver a 60, 70% solution. Right? So they give the physician, or the chief, or the admin something to work with as opposed to having to start from scratch. But ultimately everywhere, every time we talk to somebody we hear about the hours and hours that have to be put in afterwards to massage things because the rules that you have to… I mean, we saw an example once with one push button solution where there were 400 different rules that, that one site had, had to create. Because every time they went to build a new schedule, there’d be a new exception.
Lora: So they had to create a new rule. And so, I mean, even just maintaining those rules becomes really difficult and problematic. And then, you know, I mean, what if this time you go to build a schedule, and there’s a new rule that you forget? Well, you push your button, you get your thing. And then you’re like, “I have to tear this down because I forgot about this new exception.”
Joe: Okay.
Lora: Um, so that’s what becomes really tricky and really frustrating for people using those systems. They work really well in environments where there is not a very complex schedule. Like, you know, maybe like an inpatient surgery group where there’s three shifts a day, and there’s nine people to work it. You never really have to worry about holes. When you get into a 24/7 environment, it gets quite complicated. And there are a lot of moving parts, and that’s when automation gets tricky.
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Joe: And you worked in the hospital environment prior to this, right?
Lora: Yeah. I was a scheduler. I was a nursing scheduler.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: Yeah.
Joe: So I guess that’s another thing. Right? Is just having that… I know some of the founders and stuff, you know, physicians or administrators themselves. Like, have you found that’s a unique aspect of you guys?
Lora: So it’s not necessary to work here. That’s for sure. But it certainly adds, um… I think it adds a comfort level to our clients. I think we, we worked at one time that there was over a hundred years of in-hospital experience in our staff. People worked, working in various departments with various groups in various roles. But understanding that environment, like any other environment, just helps you, helps you sort of like put together all the pieces.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: So, you know, if you’ve worked in a hospital… Like I worked in a hospital. Yes. I worked with nurses and not doctors. But actually, I did work with a lot of doctors as well. But knowing how fast-paced that is. Knowing what it looks like 24/7. Knowing how the hospital system works. Knowing what… how different levels work. How they interact with each other. All of that is really important when you are talking to, you know, administrators or chiefs. It’s, it’s a bit of familiarity that I think that they appreciate.
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Joe: Any business lessons, you know, that stand out to you like over the past seven years? ‘Cause, I mean, you’ve seen a traumatic change going from a small startup to where you are today. What are the lessons learned for you like in all of this?
Lora: I think it’s really important to have a good plan. I think sometimes when you’re in startup mode, it’s just fly by the seat of your pants. And you’re constantly in reaction mode. I think that there needs to put… You need to put time into lots of different types of planning, strategic planning. What does your short, medium, and long- term strategic plan look like? What are your goals? Um, it’s really easy in software to get creature scope. Or feature scope. Right? Sof you have a young software, um, and inevitably you’re going to get a lot of feedback from your clients and all kinds of feedback. And if you try to solve all of their problems, your scope will go from this to this.
Lora: You’ll be trying to add all kinds of things. You know, you might add a feature that really only applies to one client. So you’ve spent all those hours, that time, that money to solve one person’s solution. When you could have been looking at a feature that would solve a problem for many clients.
Lora: So having, having a really clear plan of what you want to achieve, who your clients are, what your goals are, is really, really important. And then making sure that you, um, are always thinking about how you’re going to sell that product. Um, you know, I mean, early on it was like, “Okay, let’s focus on the software development. Okay, let’s do that. Now let’s focus on the service department process procedures, how we work with our clients. Okay.” Waiting until after you’re done that to think about marketing and sales is too late. You need to be thinking about marketing and sales really early on so that you can build a pipeline, have a healthy funnel, all of, all of that stuff. And that really requires a lot of planning early on.
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Joe: In, in terms of like that strategic planning, is there like a way that you like to approach it? Like what’s your methodology with strategic planning?
Lora: I like to have a really clear idea of what the goal is. So what is it? How do you… What do you, what do you see five years from now? What would you like this to look like? Do you want to have… You know, do you want world domination? I know that I, my goal is world domination. But I have to make sure that, that’s aligned with the board.
Joe: Hmm.
Lora: Um, you know, if, if that’s your goal, how, how do we achieve that? What’s, what could we do like in the next six months? Okay. Let’s make sure that we grow this market. Can we start looking at these market? Are there conferences in this market? Where does it make most sense? How are we going to scale that with our current staff? What are we gonna need for HR in order to grow that? What does marketing for that look like? So I think it’s just under having a really clear idea of what that end goal is. If you don’t have that, then you can’t plan anything else to get there.
Lora: And I think that’s where you can really easily get off track because you know, you might have all of a sudden you have, you know, an inbound lead in Israel. That’s awesome. Yes. We’ll do it. But that… You all of a sudden, you, you can’t go, “Oh, well now we should be addressing the Israeli market.”
Joe: Right.
Lora: Well, no. That’s a, a one-off. That’s great. Let’s see what happens with it. But the focus still needs to be this. Um, so it’s really easy to get distracted by other markets that all of a sudden become interested by features that other people are doing that you think you should add. That can get really tricky. It can cost you a lot of money, and it can be really disruptive.
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Joe: In terms like for you, from a personal level, like is there… You know, did you see yourself doing this kind of work? And like now that you’ve done seven years of it what’s your reflection on everything you’ve accomplished?
Lora: I didn’t see myself doing this kind… Now this isn’t my first startup. So maybe I should have had a clue that I am attracted to this kind of punishment. But, um, I really like, I really like problem-solving. And I think this has shown me that I’m pretty good at putting the pieces together.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: Even when things seem like unsolvable. Generally, I’ve found there’s always a solution. You might not be a 100% happy with it. But let’s like, let’s really think outside the box in how, how we can solve this problem, or come up with a strategy that’s not just right now and that has… You know, we can follow through long term. That’s something that I think was a strength I didn’t realize I had until I started working here.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: So, yeah. But no. I didn’t… I mean, I started off as like the admin coordinator. So I was like, “I can do that. I’ve done that lots of times.” You know, we, we were moving back from out of town. Yeah. I could start things here. I believed in the product. I still believe in the product. And I believe in the goal. I mean, if we can affect patient wait times which ultimately improves overall, um, patient care. Um, and at the same time, especially these days reduce burnout and give people a little bit of a break. You know? I mean, it’s these stories that we get where like, people are just, they’re just struggling. And if we can tweak their schedule just a little bit where it doesn’t really impact the department. But it hugely impacts that individual for those two nights off, or that weekend, or this week, or whatever it is. Gives them a chance to have a breather, a breather and balance their life a little bit better.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: I mean, if we can do that, it’s just, it’s so important and it really makes an impact. I mean, I’ve done some thinking lately just about my own career growth, and I’ve realized actually everything I’ve done has been generally for companies that are in healthcare or serve others.
Lora: So it’s clearly something I’m attracted to, and it may not be in the traditional way. But I certainly, um… You know, maybe because I’m the daughter of a nurse and a cop. Maybe that’s just sort of like in me to- to try to, you know, impact lives that, um, have a, then have a positive impact on other lives.
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Joe: And what would Lora today say to Lora, you know, seven years ago, starting this job?
Lora: Uh, don’t worry so much. It will be okay.
Joe: That’s good advice.
Lora: Yeah.
Joe: How have you learned to cope with that?
Lora: Um, is becoming numb to it a decent answer? I think it’s because I’ve realized most things do work out. There is a solution for most things. And there are like you just got to be careful what mountain you think you’re gonna die on because most of the time it doesn’t really matter. So perspective is something that maybe you acquire based like your experience will give you that. But little things that I used to worry about, I just, uh… You just can’t, you can’t waste that energy when there are so many other things to deal with.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: So I, I won’t say that I still sleep easy. Um, there’s still lots of things on my mind. But I certainly don’t worry about everything the way I used to.
Joe: And what’s the toughest part of the job today?
Lora: Um, I would say, making tough decisions that impact individual li- like when you, when you are helping to run a business you have to take the emotion out of it sometimes, and that’s tricky.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: Because you can’t be thinking really when you are responsible for lots of people in terms of like their regular income or anything like that, you have to be thinking of the collective rather than the individual. So that can be really tricky.
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Joe: And in terms of challenges like, like say marketing challenges. Like what have you found tough, from a marketing perspective with what you’re doing?
Lora: The hardest thing is making sure that you have a budget set aside for it. And knowing your limitations. I think a lot of people think they can just get into marketing. But they can’t. There’s a lot of energy and knowledge that goes into that. So it’s probably I got, you know, someone like you. I’m able to, I may be able to go, “Yeah. that makes sense. Yes. That’s a good plan.” But it’s being able to execute on that. So I think you have to have the resources in order to like… I don’t want to say, “Pay for that.” But essentially that is. Like you need, you need to set money aside. That’s not an afterthought. That has to come. That has to be foremost in your mind if you’re plan, when you’re planning sales and marketing ’cause you need the marketing to drive the sales.
Joe: Yeah.
Lora: Referral is really great. It’s been great for us. But it’s not gonna get you to world domination.
Joe: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lora: Yeah.
Joe: The chicken and the egg. Chicken and the egg. Right?
Lora: Yeah. Exactly.
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Joe: Anything else come to mind in terms of challenges? Like just the sort of business challenges that you guys have, you know, really had to work to overcome?
Lora: I think what’s really important as well is deciding what kind of business you want to be. Right? So, that’s been a challenge along the way. It’s where you get a lot of growth pains from your building your culture. So there are millions and mil- millions of businesses. And as you build a career, you work with all different types. And when you have a startup or your own company, you get to kind of decide how you want that to be, and what you want it to feel like. Um, but there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of traditional ways of doing it. And there’s a lot of pushback when you try to deviate from that tradition. So I think that that has sometimes been a challenge throughout the whole thing because when you decide on your culture, you need to kind of stick to it, and keep it consistent so that your staff knows what’s expected.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: And you, as you grow from like 10 people, to 15 people, to 20 people, it gets really hard to make sure you’re nailing that down because it would be easy to introduce new things that could totally flatten that culture you’ve worked for years to, to accomplish. And in our, in our little town, I think our culture is incredibly positive. It’s something that people talk about outside of the work we do.
Lora: Cause we’ve done things that are not traditional. We’ve done things like unlimited time off. People are floored when I tell them that. They have no idea how that can work. It works really well. And in fact, when you review at the end of the year, if you take all the time that people have spent off, and that would include like vacation, sick, lieu, et cetera, et cetera. Everything that’s traditional. You know, with a team like ours, you’re only looking at about 21 to 23 days on average. That’s actually really great. So now you’ve created an environment where people aren’t feeling pressured to clock in and out all the time. They don’t feel pressured to lie about why they’re not at work. I hate that. I don’t want anybody, first of all, to feel like they have to lie, or to lie. Let’s eliminate that. Let’s eliminate the guilt on the phone, talking about being sick when you just need a day in front of your video games. You know what? Just take a day in front of your video games.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: Do that. That’s okay. So I think that it actually… There’s more trust now between, you know, management and employees because it’s like, “Okay, you trust me to just take the time I need.” That becomes really important. And we’ve really worked at fostering a culture of inclusivity, of authenticity. Be who you are. Don’t want you to be someone you’re not. Be who you are.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: You know, be passionate about what you’re doing. So those are all things that we work really hard towards. And it’s important to keep that in mind especially when you’re hiring, and you’re expanding, because that makes us who we are.
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Joe: Final question, from a leadership perspective. Like what do you think is the most important quality, you know… You’re in a leadership role. What is the most important quality from your perspective?
Lora: Well, I think it’s the whole leadership word. It’s leadership versus management. So I think you need to hire really smart people that you can trust, and you need to be the example that they can follow.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: So be a leader. I don’t think that we need to micromanage or manage people. I think we need to trust that they can do what we’ve hired them to do. If they can’t, then we’ll have a discussion. We’ll support them. We’ll see what happens. But then also lead by example.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: This is what, you know, I’m going to be the person… I’m gonna be my authentic self. I want you to be your authentic self. And this is sort of like the work ethic I’d like to see.
Joe: Nice and simple.
Lora: Yeah.
Joe: That a goods. Well, Lora, I, uh, appreciate you taking the time to chat.
Lora: Yeah. No problem at all. I hope that, that was useful.
Joe: Yeah. Totally. It’s uh, just something that I started doing last year. And I love conversations, and it’s easy just to like not make time for open ended conversations, you know, with the business community or whoever.
Lora: Yeah.
Joe: And, uh, it, it’s amazing just people’s experience. Um, all of us have insight. I think that, you know, when, when we sit down and think about it, and somebody kind of coaxes it out of us there’s a, there’s a lot of substance there, I think, in all of us.
Lora: Yeah. I agree. I love these things. You should put like a little forum for business leaders or something. I mean, there’s so much we can learn from each other. It’s unbelievable. I love it.
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Joe: And actually just another question came to mind. In closing…
Lora: Yeah.
Joe: … just, just this pandemic like, you know, as a business. And I mean, this is like brand spanking new for all of us. That’s for sure. Any comments on that in just terms of how you guys, uh… and a year in healthcare. So maybe it’s like a great time to be in business. But any lessons or high points that sort of come to mind when you think about how you got through the last couple years?
Lora: I think the pandemic reaffirmed our resilience and agility. We were in a transitional phase right before it. We had gone from one service, our primary business, one service. We were toying with adding a second level of service. And then we acquired a third that was broken that we had to work on. So there was a lot going on. So to add a pandemic on top of it was like, “Oh my God.” But our team really, um… I’m really proud of our team because they just sort of like, “Okay. Let’s go. Let’s do this.” We had to completely revamp how we did most things. All of our sales before were very much face-to-face.
Joe: Right.
Lora: So we were, you know, flying all over North America and England. You know, monthly there were people out doing sales calls. That all had to be trans-… That all had to transition to virtual. Um, our service team, when we used to implement a new client, they were on the ground. They were there for a week. So if we were implementing, you know, in England, in Boston, wherever. We had two or three people, you know, they were in the hospital. They were meeting face to face. They were training people. So that all had to change.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: So it made us become much more efficient. It made us work as a team to come up with solutions that were sustainable, and that made sense. I don’t think we’re gonna go back to either one of those models even when we can. We’ll just stay to… stick to the way we’re doing things. We did realize that we were better collectively together and in person. So some business model… Some work environments might do okay working from home. For us, I think we’re much more productive when we’re together.
Joe: Hmm.
Lora: It’s maybe the culture we’ve built. Maybe the types of people that we hire. But there’s a lot of ideas, you know, idea sharing. But that’s okay. I mean, the pandemic didn’t have to prove that you could work remotely. It just had to, you know, it just had to make clear what your strengths and weaknesses were.
Joe: Mm-hmm.
Lora: And our strengths is that we, we are very agile. We can develop software, you know, in a week to solve a problem. We can change our processes and procedures. We can get creative. Um, but we work best when we’re together and idea sharing.
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Joe: All right, Lora. Well, like I said, I know you’re busy. So I’ll leave you to it. Again, really appreciate you taking the time.
Lora: Yeah. No problem. It was really great chatting with you.
Joe: Yeah. Thank you. I will share this with you when we get it put together. We tend to kind of pull out two or three highlights from it and, and kind of put those on, on LinkedIn. But yeah. No. I’m sure there’s folks that’ll get something from some of the things you’ve shared.
Lora: Yeah. It’s great. And I mean, I would love to see what the other people are saying too ’cause as all of this… with all of this happening with our company, I’m learning a lot from really talented people and really smart people. And it’s even growing my base and skill set. So what it reinforces is that like just talking to more people who have their own companies, have been up against the same struggles. It’s so important.
Joe: It, it is. If anything, it’s encouraging. And I think we have a lot to share with each other, you know, that is significant. Right? Can really, really help us along the way.
Lora: Yeah. Absolutely.
Joe: So Coolio. Well, I’m sure we’ll be in touch. Say hello to everybody and-
Lora: Will do.
Joe: Yeah. I’m sure we’ll see you soon.
Lora: Okay. Take care.
Joe: All right. Thanks, Lora.
